Sometimes it all comes down to timing. Things were rolling along just fine during the last city council meeting, November 17, the pre-Thanksgiving meeting, when feathers seldom get ruffled, but then it happened just prior to the end of the meeting, when Mayor Steve Chirico ‘tossed a hand grenade’ in council chambers.
He brought up the hot divisive topic of a mask mandate in Naperville. Why in the world would he want to walk down that bomb infested road knowing that a vast number of people don’t take too kindly to having the heavy-hand of politicians squeeze their freedom and rights, especially with vaccines on the horizon. Watch and listen as the mayor pulls the pin on the grenade:
If the city issues a mask mandate, how will it be enforced and who gets to wield the ax of compliance? Is the Mayor offering-up councilmen Benny White and Kevin Krummen for almost certain defeat in the next city council election in spring if they support the mandate? Watch and listen to the mayor:
The jury is still out regarding the effectiveness of masks. Politicians say follow the science, who’s science are they referring to? The science they agree with, or the opposing science? Watch and listen to Fox New’s Laura Ingraham and her two guests refer to the Danish and Swedish studies.
Enter councilman Kevin Coyne, as always, with his common sense approach to a mandate vs PSA persuasion:
Councilman Coyne has this innate ability of getting a ‘good read’ on the feelings of residents on issues, a gift that other council members seem to lack, or maybe they do understand but don’t care.
“Inflaming those with a contrarian view with an outpouring of opposition” might be an understatement.
Now here is when it gets a bit scary, when the words “armed officers’, ‘handcuffed’ , ‘put in jail’, ‘criminal prosecution’ enter the conversation: Watch and listen to councilwoman Theresa Sullivan as she offers-up the Naperville Fire Department as the wielders of the iron ax to get residents and visitors to comply one way or another:
What happened to the mantra “we are all in this together?
What will be next with these morons? Mandatory vaccinations followed by mandatory chips? Freedom is lost one step at a time and these nanny staters are killing our businesses and now our constitutional rights. The 5% neurotics don’t get to control the other 95% of the people who know this is just like all the other flu we have delt with in the past!
Mask are only a divisive political issue because Trump made it so.
It is true that the scientific and medical community are not in complete agreement on how effect masks can be as a means of remediation,but they all do agree they work.
If masks do not work, why does everyone in the scientific and medical community use them in situations were reducing contamination is critical? Areas like operating rooms, viral research labs, clean rooms, etc.
So the question is not does the medical and scientific community believe mask work (clearly the behavior of these professionals is proof they believe they do), but are they effective enough to be the salient focus for remediation. Yes, there are many that feel they are not and have published papers that demonstrate this point, but not to demonstrate they do not work at all. The point of these papers are to clarify the risk of relying solely on masks as a means of remediation.
That said we come to the issue of mask mandates. Yes we are all in this together, but if everyone actually acted like this we would not ever be having mask mandate conversations because everyone would simply be wearing them already.
I admit I do not wear a mask when I go for my late night walks, simply because I rarely encounter people on these walks and when I do I maintain my distance. I have timed these “encounter” and they normally last between 5 to 10 seconds on average. Again this is outdoors where their is fundamentally limitless air circulation of such a turbulent nature it is impossible for any “concentration of airborne contaminates” to develop.
Yes masks work! And that is why I always wear one indoors no matter what the situation. As well as outdoors when I am going to be in close proximate of other for a prolonged period of time. But no they should not be relied on as the only means of remediation. And no we should not get in the habit of thinking wearing a mask is the only precaution we need to take.
We aren’t wearing cloth masks in medical situations. Being that I am a nurse we wear surgical masks in the OR, completely different from cloth masks. There is a huge difference between the two. When we take care of patients on airborne precautions we wear an N95 respirator which only protects the wearer. Trump had nothing to do with people being against masks. Cloth masks are not effective and pre-covid mask studies prove cloth masks are ineffective. Cloth masks do NOT work, hence mask to mask transmission cases!
What study?
I hear this all the time, but when asked to provide a link to an actually peer reviewed study published in an accepted medical journal that states what you claim no one ever provides a link.
Yes some people in the healthcare industry say exactly what you are saying but that does not make it an accepted fact by professional healthcare industry organizations.
And what are you calling a “cloth mask”. All the masks I have seen for sale that are cloth are actually multiple layers of material and not just a single layer of fabric. But even single layer fabric masks have been shown to stop some of the particle exhaled by people as they breath and any particles stop (even only 5%) are particles that will not become a source of transmission. And that makes them effective are remediation even if only slightly.
Yes, N95 masks are the most effective available but as their name says they are only 95% effective at filtering not 100%. That is why, even with these masks, mask to mask transmission is possible. As I stated masks will not, and are not intended, to stop transmission only remediate it.
The only system that is 100% effective are those that have independent air sources like respirators and self contained breathing devices.
And yes Trump is the one that made wearing a mask a political statement and a divisive issue. When you say things like – “only people that are scared wear masks”, “I don’t wear a mask because I am not afraid”,”this virus is not dangerous”, “children are immune”, etc along with calling your political opponent scared because he is always wearing a mask and hiding in a basement, you are making wearing a mask not just a political issue but a divisive issue as well.
Meanwhile, Mayor Chirico attended a wedding in Naples Florida, with dozens and dozens of people, not wearing masks. There are multiple pictures of him posing with large groups of people. Not one wearing a mask. Do as I say…….
RULES FOR THEE, NOT FOR ME!
As Chirico explained. Everyone attending had a recent negative test for the SAR-CoV-2 virus and planned to get another such test upon returning home as well as self isolate.
If everyone had a recent negative test result before leaving their home then the chance of being infected or infecting someone else would be less then if you wear a mask and maintaining a social distance. And if everyone that does not want to wear a mask agreed to do this then I would have no problem with them going out in public crowds maskless.
How about you? Are you willing to only go out in public crowds after receiving a negative test result for SAR-CoV-2 virus?
I highly doubt all these people were tested and even if they were, you said he said recent. How recent? You are making an assumption to take blame off these individuals. Guess what? This mayor or other elected official isn’t the only one following their own guidelines. Also, the tests are not always accurate and some can test negative and end up being positive the next day. It is not a reliable indicator at all.
Yes no test is 100% accurate. They are all capable of providing false positive and negative results. But if a test is 95% accurate then it is as effective a means of remediation as a N95 mask, which by definition, is only 95% effective at remediation.
Again my point is focusing on masks as the salient means of remediation is a fallacy. Yes they are one of many measures that can be used to remediate transmission but not the only one. Distancing, air circulation and filtration indoors, gathering outdoors (like with outdoor dining)…and yes testing are all means of remediation.
The article in question, and the niece that attacked Chirico on this, focused only the fact the masks were not worn and said nothing about anything else that was done to remediate spread. My comment is only intended to clarify this gross mis-representation, not “take blame off these individuals”.
And by the way what are you “blaming” them for? I have not heard of anyone that attended this wedding of testing positive or getting sick. So what exactly are they guilty of doing?
Was this behavior not consistent with a mask mandate policy? Of course, but until such a mandate exists masks are not required and no mandate was violated. And again an alternate means of remediation was practiced, one that is much more effective then wearing a mask.
As to how recent, well according to all the medical professionals I have seen discuss this on TV, testing only works if it is done 3 to 5 days after infections. It takes at least this long for enough of a viral load to develop for the test to be able to detect it, which means it takes this long for enough of a viral load to develop to be contagious. Remember a person is not immediately contagious when they first contract a virus, it takes time for the viral infection to grow to a point that it can be transmitted or spread.
So if you have a negative test result and have been isolating since taking the test then even if you were exposed just before taking the test you have 3 to 5 days were you are infected but not contagious. And if you started your isolation 5 days prior to the test and continued it after the test then your are most likely not infected. If you then practice only gathering in small groups outdoors (like with outdoor diners) you further remediate the chance of spreading this virus among members of this group.
Again nothing can stop the spread only remediate it and even the best masks available are only 95% effective at doing this.
Jim, Jim, Jim, stepping in it again. Stop defending Chirico, and attacking Trump. Fauci and the WHO told everyone NOT to wear a mask, go about your life as usual. Then they said to stay home for 15 days to stop the spread/flatten the curve, wash your hands and wear a mask. Now, here we are 10 months later, thousands of businesses have closed for good, people can’t feed their families, Congress can’t just pass a clean bill to help regular people, and Governors and Mayors are playing God with other peoples lives. We know there is a 99% recovery rate for normal healthy people. Masks are divisive because of what I commonly see pass as a mask on people everywhere. They aren’t filtering anything through their crocheted designer mask, and the amount of touching of the face and mask, and then touching carts, produce, etc. is staggering. It probably spreads more germs than it stops. If you want to wear a mask to protect yourself and others, go get a really good respirator and wear that. Most people are NOT afraid, most people are more worried about feeding their families, paying their bills, and living their lives. I also suggest turning off the fear porn on CNN, MSNBC, FOX and the rest of the 24hr cable stations. Read the real stats on the CDC website and go outside and breathe some clean air!
Dear Maskless Marauder,
Yes, back in February and March of this year there was not much know about the nature of this virus, how it spread, how lethal it was, etc and a lot was said the we know now, because of the new data, was simply wrong.
Generally it is actually a sign of integrity, honesty, and yes intelligence to admit this and correct past mistakes. This behavior is usually considered mature and a sign of growth but for some reason, when it come to this pandemic, it is consider and used by some a discrediting or a deceptive act. This is just another example of how Trump has politicized this health issue to appease and milk his base.
We know that more people have been infect with the SAR-CoV-2 virus in the last month then in a typical year from the seasonal flu! We know that the number of people that die from the seasonal flu in a bad year is 60K and this virus has ready killed over 290K! We know hospitals have never had to cancel surgeries during even the worst seasonal flu outbreak but have had to do it for two periods of time with this Pademic. We know that Emergency Rooms have never had to turn away patient during a seasonal flu outbreak, but they are now because of this virus. We know that ICUs have never reach their capacity during any seasonal flu outbreak, but they have does so for two periods for this pandemic. We know the survivability from the seasonal flu is 99.9% for all people without regard to pre-existing condition or general health before getting it. We know that after catching the SAR-CoV-2 virus people are suffering from permanent long term health condition because this virus has damaged their lungs, heart, brain, etc.
As to the quality of the mask some are wearing, all that can be said it these are not the type of masks being promoted to wear. The reason you know these more porous masks don’t work is because healthcare workers and professionals are telling you on the nightly news. It has also be my experience that the people wearing these types of masks are doing so as a kind of protest to wearing a mask at all.
Finally the accusation, intimidation and bullying that underlies the whole fear argument is recognized by the vast majority of the people in this country for the B.S. and divisive political tactic it is. So you can stop wasting everyone’s time by continuing to push this pointless trype, no one is buying it.
P.S. I believe in what I am saying enough to stand up, in my community, and be easily and openly identified, unlike you, who is the person that is really living in fear and does not have the strength of conviction needed to not feel the need to attack people anomalously.
We all wear mask and it seems like they dont work so we dont want them to be mandantory
If Jim Haselhorst is elected to city council I’m moving!!!!
Why? Isn’t our dictator Pritzer already doing enough harm?
I wish you posted the results of voting on the mandate. I can’t seem to find them anywhere. Yes this is was enough to get me interested in City Council and yes I desire to NOT vote for anyone that voted for the mandate. Looks like there are only two incumbents, John Krummen and Benjamin White. I would like to know their voting history.
The issue never came up for a vote, however both Krummen and White were leaning in the direction of a mandate. Ultimately common sense prevailed and no action was taken.
Interesting! The news presented it as if it had been voted on. I think they even said it only lost by one vote – 4 for to 5 against. Further evidence you cannot trust mainstream news. Thanks for the info! I looked around some more and came to the same conclusion on how they were leaning. I believe Krummen mentioned masks in a bio. Glad common sense prevailed and it seems Chirico slackened up enforcement all around (maybe his Florida trip opened his eyes as he mentioned) because many restaurants opened indoor dining, ignoring Pritzker’s tyrannical edicts. I happily supported many of them.
As to the studies proving ineffectiveness of masks which someone here doubted (I hope they have notifications on), there are dozens and many randomized controlled trials (the gold standard) that show no benefit to community transmission, in fact some showed negative effects. There are no randomized controlled trials that show a benefit to masking. Here are a few examples:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27115326/ (effectiveness not even demonstrated in surgery!)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18500410/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15340662/
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00173017
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face%20e-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematicreview/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05
https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744
There’s more where that came from. If anyone wants to debate it, bring it on. I have twenty years experience in air filtration back up what science and common sense has be saying for decades. Something doesn’t work just because you want it to and you want to do something.
So thanks again, I will be keeping an eye on this site moving forward.
PS you were correct about Coyne’s pulse on the public. Had this mandate passed, you would have surely seen me on the news!! 🙂 (I didn’t hear about this in time or I would have made a statement at Council meeting)
Irrespective of whether masks work; ultimately it doesn’t matter, people in favor of the mandates need to read the Constitution again. Further, realize that the Constitution is not granting us rights, but declaring they are given by God and therefore cannot be infringed upon by anyone, especially the government.
Watchdog was incorrect; score one for mainstream news. The city council did have a vote to mandate masks December 1, 2020. the vote was 5 to 4 to oppose the mandate. The five included Mayor Chirico, Kevin Coyne, Paul Hinterlong, Patty Gustin and John Krummen. Those favoring the mask mandate included Brodhead, Kelly, Sullivan, and White.
Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. We’ll let mainstream news have this W. They don’t get them often 🙂